Yves Derai: Are you a dreamer?

Mory Sacko: Yes, I'm one of those people. Doing nothing is an activity for me. In my job, there are always a thousand things to do, so sometimes I set aside time to dream. These are moments of creativity for me.

Yves Derai: So it's useful dreaming then!

M.S.: Yes. It allows me to escape from everyday life and invent.

Yves Derai: Was it a dream of yours to be on the cover of the American magazine Times?

M.S.: Not at all! I didn't even think it was possible, and it became a reality! When you become a chef, you don't say to yourself, "I dream of being on the cover of Times. ' At most, you hope to be mentioned in the trade press.

Yves Derai: So what is the Holy Grail for a chef?

M.S.: I have many dreams, first and foremost freedom and longevity in my profession. Awards and recognition are the fruit of hard work.

Yves Derai: Does freedom mean being in your own restaurant?

M.S.: No, not necessarily. Tomorrow, I could be working for a hotel or a group. As long as I can keep my creative freedom. If I want to create a dish that combines the five continents, for example, I want to be able to do so. And not have someone whisper in my ear, ‘That won't work, Mory.’ I want to continue to enjoy myself every day because, for me, this profession isn't really a job.

Yves Derai: Is that a non-negotiable condition?

M.S.: Of course. I won't even enter into discussions if my potential partner doesn't understand that when you hire a chef, you take him with his cuisine and everything that goes with it. It's a package deal.

Yves Derai: Is three Michelin stars a dream?

M.S.: A big dream! Winning one was already a dream, even a goal. And I know that if I ever manage to get two stars, I'll think about the third. Will it happen? I don't know.

Yves Derai: You're more straightforward than most chefs who always answer this question by saying, ‘It's not a goal in itself. I work for my customers first and foremost, and if it happens, so much the better.’

M.S.: I'm not obsessed with it, but it's good to say that you want it. Otherwise, you never give yourself the means to get there. The chefs who got the third star wanted it and gave themselves the means to get it. But we're going to start with the second one...

Yves Derai: What does ‘giving yourself the means’ to get the third star mean?

M.S.: Continuing to refine your art and enrich the storytelling of the dishes. The setting isn't the most important thing; there are three-star restaurants in palaces and in small rooms. I know how far I still have to go, and that's what excites me in the end. It would be depressing, at 31, to think that you've already won the game.

Yves Derai: You are known as a chef who blends cuisines and mixes cultures. Does that correspond to your ideal society?

M.S.: Yes, you could say that. This blending corresponds first and foremost to my own experience. I grew up with my brothers and sisters in the Paris region, in a dual French and Malian culture. Then I developed my identity with friends who were Moroccan, Vietnamese, etc., watching Japanese cartoons on television and reading manga. I have lived in this melting pot since I was very young; it's not something conceptual. This world is not an ideal, it exists. And in my kitchen, I am happy to show that cultures can converse with each other.

Yves Derai: Does that mean that blanquette de veau or coq au vin don't make you dream?

M.S.: Yes, because that's the kind of dish I dream of inventing, a dish that people will still be cooking in two or three centuries, one that will remain a benchmark. If we still talk about blanquette today, it's because it's perfect as it is.

Yves Derai: Are you trying to develop this benchmark dish that will stand the test of time?

M.S.: No, because if I tried, I'm sure I'd never succeed. If it were to happen one day, it would be without my knowledge. Customers or critics decide that a particular dish has become a ‘signature’ dish, then others take it on board and in the end, it becomes established. But you can't force this process.

Which dish by a top chef impresses you?

M.S.: Robuchon's purée, for example. A purée seems simple, but he managed to reinterpret it in such a way that now people ask for it. In my opinion, most of the dishes that have become established over time, such as blanquette or coq au vin, are not restaurant dishes but home-cooked dishes that chefs have appropriated, often to enhance them.

Yves Derai: Don't you feel that France is currently moving away from the multicultural society in which you grew up?

M.S.: No, I wouldn't say that, but a divide has emerged. In cooking, for example, there is a category of people who want to mix cuisines.

Yves Derai: And another that seeks out local produce, a region. These are two sides of the same coin, that's how it is.
Have you become a symbol of this cosmopolitan society to which you seem attached?

M.S.: I am one of the standard-bearers of this France in my generation. A generation that is not afraid of this mix, that has no problem with it, no internal conflict. Have you seen the customers in my restaurant? We have white people, black people, Asians, young people, old people... My cuisine speaks to a lot of people.

Yves Derai: Does being a standard-bearer mean being a spokesperson?

M.S.: No. My place is in the kitchen; that's where I express myself best. I don't dream of going into politics, I dream of cooking, with my three stars maybe one day, that's all!

Yves Derai: When you sleep, do you dream about cooking?

M.S.: First of all, I don't sleep much. But I dream more about food than cooking. I'm at the table, eating, discovering new foods...

Yves Derai: And your cooking nightmare?

M.S.: I don't have any recurring ones, but before I go to bed, I always have the same anxiety: did I turn off my deep fryer?

Yves Derai: Which celebrities would you dream of feeding? What would your ideal dinner table look like?

M.S.: The Obamas, for starters. They seem nice and they love to eat. I'd mix them with artists because they have a developed sensibility. Can I invite people who are no longer with us? Picasso and Dalí, because as well as being geniuses, they were funny! And Cesaria Evora, because I adore her.

Yves Derai: That would make for a lovely dinner, indeed. What do you still have left to accomplish?

M.S.: Oh, lots of things, but one day I'd like to have three restaurants on the three continents I love: Europe, Asia and Africa. Then I could reach my full potential. It's even a project.

Yves Derai: Isn't it complicated to run a restaurant remotely?

M.S.: No, I already do it with my street food restaurants and Lafayette, in partnership with the Moma group. I rarely go there, but I've set everything up and recruited teams I trust completely. I drop in between services or at the weekend to check things out. The recipes are mine and there isn't a single dish that comes out of the kitchen that I haven't tasted. I've chosen to be in my gastro restaurant, but I try to balance the roles of chef and business owner.

Yves Derai: Why did you choose to be here most of the time?

M.S.: Because I want to continue to progress as a chef. And I need to knead meat, cut fish, touch the ingredients... But it's certain that if I open restaurants on three continents, I'll have to let go a little here.

Yves Derai: What other profession would you have liked to pursue?

M.S.: Architect or designer. I like staging things on the plate, but also in the city, thinking about places.

Yves Derai: Your dream trip?

M.S.: The southern islands of Japan. It's tropical Japan.

Yves Derai: What is your dream object?

M.S.: A Basquiat. But I'm afraid that will remain a dream for a long time. A painting is prohibitively expensive. A drawing, perhaps...

Yves Derai: When you grow up in a large family in the Paris suburbs and find yourself at the age of 30 at the helm of a Michelin-starred restaurant, what do you say to yourself?

M.S.: I feel proud because I put a lot of energy into it from the start. It's a reward for the work I've done.

Yves Derai: Is media coverage a means to an end? An end in itself? An addiction?

M.S.: No, it's a way to fill my restaurants. And a consequence of a job well done. But I enjoy the exercise, talking, exchanging ideas... And after all, being able to share my vision of the world and society is a privilege.

Yves Derai: Beyond cooking, what is your ultimate goal?

M.S.: To die in peace and happiness.

Article written by Yves Derai to be found in volume 7 of Oniriq Magazine

Translated by Bethszabee Garner